DISCUSSION ON GREATER NEPAL BETWEEN MONOJ PANDIT & BIMAL GURUNG.

Dear Manoj Pandit Jee, Namaste and thanks for your prompt response. Let us keep the discussions relevant to your topic of the ‘Greater Nepal.’ Allow me to make a few comments on your writing. Pandit : what do you think we have got from 1950 treaty?an open border,although not mentioned in the treaty but every body assumed and then border is unmanaged. The biggest drawback and we are affected in the indo-nepal relationship is the so called opened but I will say unmanaged border through a lot of unseen problem has been produced. may be you think the open border between us is a productive,I will suggest you to revise the ideology,I can give you its merit and lot of demerits. so you are for the migrant nepali workers in india ?it has to be discussed whether it has been very productive for the national output. Comment: I really do not know much about the 1950 treaty to make any judgment. However, it is not relevant to the concept of the greater Nepal. Yes, we need to know whether border being open (or unmanaged) is good or bad. I do not know the answer to the question. However, I would suggest a study by competent office before declaring any. I can imagine lots of Indian nationals coming in, and same time lots of Nepalese going to India also. I would not jump to the conclusion without some thought and survey on it. Pandit : why do you think it is not the right time to raise the issue about national problem? when will be the time?who decide what time is right-when you don,t have the nation?there is written that every time is right to raise your voice for your Rights.now is the best time to expose all the wrong that happened in the history.Pardon me there had been lot of unjustice happened to Nepal as nation and to nepalise people.so what long time we wait for the right time. Comment: I think right time is when Maoist problem is solved and the regular democratic practice is in place. At this time, we even do not have a functioning constitution, let alone a properly elected government. This is my definition of right or wrong time. What is yours? Yes, I am sure there are many injustices done. All you need to do is spell out exactly what are they? How and in what context such injustices happened? Who are the culprits and victims? What do you propose to do in today’s context? Perhaps people of Kumaon and Garhwal may also have grievance against recurrent Gurkha invasion before British occupation. Unless you have spelled out properly and conceptualize a feasible plan, there is no point in wild goose chase. Pandit : Plese,take this words that a nation is being encrypted by treaties,you might have heard sikkim smash and it is done by the treaty.so very important all the treaties that had been done by the worst ruler in the past has to be revived or cancealed.so the 1950s treaty has to be first reviewed,then if necessary cancealed it which will be better for the future of nepal. TO YOUR INFORMATION WHAT YOU READ AS THE TREATY PAPER IS NOT ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE TREATY,THERE IS A SECRET LETTER WITH IT WHICH HAD PUT NEPAL IN CRISIS AND NEPAL BEING INDIA’S SUBSTATE. For that do you think, what controls our political decision,commerce,transportation,water resources,sometimes foreign affairs and political changes in Nepal?so I request you to awake about the consequences and review about the history. Comment: I do not know what you mean by ‘encrypted by treaty.’ However, I understand that you are against 1950 treaty. I do not know enough about all the ramifications of it to pass judgment. However, I would suggest a discussion in an open public forum. Also let us not forget that Nepal is a land locked and poor country. In the present condition, it will be very difficult for us to make the border a standard international type. Perhaps Nepal can propose to India a new concept where all the interests are addressed. If India still wants to impose their vision, then we have a legitimate grievance. However, the key is the good home work first. Yes, it is indeed to my information that a secret letter exist. If you know about the secret letter, then it is not really a secret letter, is it? Since I do not know about it, please do educate me. What is it and how is it detrimental to Nepal ? How does a secret letter make Nepal a vassal to India? By the way, I am sure there are lots and lots of secret letters in world. So far they have not bothered me. I am rather worried about public legal letters. Just for argument, say King Mahendra signed such secret letter to the detriment of Nepal . And by the stretch of imagination King Birendra is also obliged to it. However, how will that deter democratically elected leaders? I would think the political, economic and other decisions are too complex to be decided by any single person. I do not think even Mahendra or Prithvi Narayan Shah can claim that. I understand you are alluding to India being such entity. Here again, I think best thing to do is to study Indian interests, and spell out where Indian and Nepalese interests compliment and contradict. That way we can have a better deal or negotiation. I am against knee jerk blame India game. It only makes us idiots. Again, first thing to do is good home work. Can you spell out exactly what are Indian interests and how are they detrimental to our interests? Remember, there is always some give and take. Thus, we need to know exactly what are ‘gives and takes.’ ‘Waking up’ means understanding all the issues first. Pandit :as for the suguali treaty/YES/we need to have positive thinking on it,nomatter how many years it will take,the dream will come true but we have to be stronmg enough to raise our voice,make the whole world know it and we go on pursuaing it. Nomatter what profile it is now,the territory of sugauli treaty is our RIGHTS and you never hesisate to acknowledge your RIGHTS.I have tried to put forward our historic RIGHTS and make people aware of it hoping in coming generation s big achivement will be in diagram of nepal. why do you think it is a problem?why?This issue is not a problem,it is our RIGHTS::: people from those states?lets have election first and we will have the result. It is not India to give the land it is us to demand our land,if we don’t do it then nobody is going to give you anything. Comment: Regarding the pre-Sugaoli land, I think there are three issues involved. First and foremost – what legal basis do we have, which can stand in an international court? Second is the political issue - do people living in those areas think themselves as Nepalese today and wants to join Nepal? Mind you that India is conducting elections in those areas since her independence. What if they think them selves Indian and laugh at your proposal? Are we so economically advanced that we can provide them with better economic opportunity as incentives? Third is the historical issue - was there a country called Nepal with pre-Sugaoli border long enough to make an entity recognized in history and in people’s collective memory? In my opinion, undefined Nepal existed all the way from the ‘ Mahabharat’ time. However, the seed of modern Nepal is planted by Prithvi Narayan Shah when he won Kathmandu valley in 1768. Then it was a matter of expansion and conquest of Nepalese-Gurkha army. Nepal expanded up to the river Kali by 1790. Nepal conquered Kumaoun\Garhwal in 1803. In 1814 Nepal lost these part to British forces and in 1816 Sugaoli treaty it was recognized. Nepal controlled the areas only for a few years and perhaps not long enough to make a nationalist case. If you look it from the historical perspective of Indian Uttaranchal state, a dozen years of Gurkha rule may be only a small foot note. This is the history of the 19th century where conquering land by force was a legitimate politics. It is not relevant today, where politics is about citizens ruling themselves. However, it is a matter of historical research and I do not have enough background on it. By the way, how do you propose to ‘demand’ land from India? Are you going to international court first, or merely write a letter to India? Or I hope not, attack India with a very sharp Khukri? If you do, please do not expect me to follow. My opinion is to take care of the present ‘Mechi – Mahakali’ Nepal first. Which we, sadly, are not doing good job; let alone dream of the greater Nepal. We have to be careful what we dream of. What if Palpa (annexed in 1804) wants to be an independent country? And also Baishe, Chaubise? What if China claims suzerainty over Nepal? They may be able to produce some old and forgotten documents. Being realistic and practical is not anti-national. To commit without thinking through is. Pandit : UNNECESSARY? what is necessary for you? may be your necessity is different from us? Comment: Yes, your and my definitions of ‘necessary’ are different. However, neither of them qualifies to be the ‘necessity’ of Nepal . The national interest should be defined either through referendum or through legitimate political parties. I do suggest first to take a sample opinion survey of people living in Kumaon\Garhwal if they think themselves as Nepali, not Indian; and if they want to join Nepal ; and then to take the case to any of the existing parties. If any party thinks it a good cause, then great. My kudos to you. Pandit: I want all the injustice to my nation being provoked first and solved then.so if you think India is doing everything great for nepal and India is parents for us then lets drop the idea of discussing on 1950s treaty and sugauli treaty. Comment: How do you ‘provoke’ injustice? I do not want to provoke any. Yes, I am all for solving each and every problem. However, first you have to define exactly what are the problems? Vague ideas of perceived injustices will not do? You have to spell them out. Then you have to make proposals which address all the legitimate interests and injustices. Not I, but you wrote, ” India is doing everything great for Nepal and India is parents for us.” By the way, your issue of ‘ India is father or not’ is not relevant to the issue of greater Nepal. Pandit: Do you know what RAW is doing in Nepal? why do you think any nationalist though is supported by ISI.? PLEASE TAKE MY WORD THAT MOST OF NEPALISE HAVE THIS URGE TO RAISE THE VOICE BUT DUE TO A LOT OF SURROUNDING PROBLEM THEY CAN’T AND WHOEVER CAN THEY ARE PERSONS TO BE APPRECIATED NOT PUTTING HALLMARK, lot of people have sold their soul not to raise the national issue so it is very difficult to stand for nation and i am fighting on it. Comment: No, I do not know what ‘RAW’ is doing in Nepal. They do not tell me. Please do educate me. Before you tell me about the RAW activities, please establish the relevance of RAW with the issue of the Greater Nepal. If we are planning to attack Kumaon secretly then perhaps we have to watch out RAW. If RAW can read your web site with a flick of mouse using internet, then how is RAW relevant? No, I did not accuse any body being ISI agent. Wisdom is ‘not to accuse without any evidence’ and also ‘think of all possibilities.’ It is a common knowledge that Pakistan is bent on bleeding India with thousand cuts, their stated policy. Cases like Khalistan, SIMI are not Pakistan created, while case like Kashmir is. In all the cases Pakistan is trying to hurt India . Pakistan is not anti-Nepal, but anti-India. To tell the truth, Pakistan is not even anti-India, but anti-Hindu. In the process of hurting India if they can use Nepal, she will. And in the process if Nepal, a kafir country, suffers, then well and good. For example, Pakistan is using Kathmandu as a route to send her agents and counterfeit Indian currency to India. Matter of fact, Nepal is obliged to make 500 IC Rs. illegal. I have also read articles on Kashmir by a ‘Bahun lady?’, which is merely Pakistan’s official version. That is, we have to be careful. Regardless of Pakistan, if you really think we have a case against Sugauli treaty then let a lawyer make at least a prima facie case, which can stand in the International court. Politicizing the issue is the last thing you want to do. Pandit : Sir, this is my answer to your previous mail,i hope you will have all the qns being answered. if not put forward on me. i will write on your second mail next Comment: I do look forward to. Manoj pandit